[00:00:18] Well, hello everyone. Welcome to Healing Together, Body and Mind Aligned. We are going to launch the first episode of this podcast hosted by Dr. Gariffos that is going to tell us about his journey, his inspiration behind his approach. He's going to give us real examples about how to align the body and mind and how this has transformed patient outcomes.

[00:00:46] And we are going to talk about the vision of the Rehab Revolution. This is the Rehab Revolution. This is episode one. I'm going to begin by saying hello to Dr. Gariffos. Hello, how are you? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Hope you have a great time. I know I'm going to and I know every single person that's listening to this podcast will.

[00:01:13] So, I'm going to start right with the first question. Dr. Gariffos, let's just try to go back to where it all began. Where were you born and raised? Did you always want to be a doctor? Or was either of your parents a doctor?

[00:01:29] Okay. So, yes, I was born and raised in Southwest Philadelphia. My parents owned a deli in Southwest Philadelphia. So, I was raised in a deli since I was five years old, sweeping the floors up until I was 18 years old when I left for college.

[00:01:48] I currently live about 30 minutes away from Southwest Philly in Media, Pennsylvania. Married my best friend 27 years ago, Roxanne. And I have three fine gentlemen as sons.

[00:02:00] Well, that's wonderful. And it's a great way to get to know you. But tell us about you being a doctor. Is it something you always dreamt about? Is it something that crossed your mind? Is it something that came out at a late age? How did that work for you?

[00:02:20] Yeah. So, when I was in high school, I played ice hockey and had a couple injuries. And I went through the rehab process and met the physical therapists. Also met orthopedic surgeons. Originally, when I went to pre-med, I was thinking about becoming an orthopedic surgeon. I met a few orthopedic surgeons. Didn't really like the lifestyle. So, I went down the physical therapy route and got my doctorate in physical therapy.

[00:02:44] I had my master's in physical therapy from Hahnemann Hospital in Philadelphia. And I went back and got my MBA at Drexel University. And then I went back and got my doctorate with an emphasis in orthopedics at Temple University. And I've been practicing. This June will be 30 years as a practicing doctor of physical therapy.

[00:03:05] Whoa, that's a lot. So, tell us the day you went and told your parents that had nothing to do with being a physician. Mom, Dad, you know what? I'm going to be a doctor. They were surprised, but they weren't really surprised because they knew how well I was doing in grade school and high school. And they knew that I was on the track to become a doctor when I went pre-med at Hahnemann University.

[00:03:33] They were really excited for me. My one other brother, he lives about two hours from me, but we were both raised in the deli. And I just went down the track becoming a doctor of physical therapy. I'm going to go ahead and move on to your philosophy, your philosophy on healing. If you had to distill this philosophy into one sentence, I know it's hard, but let's think about one sentence.

[00:04:02] What would it be? You know, I would say it's a cliche for a reason, but what I've learned in 30 years of practice is patients really don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.

[00:04:18] I feel like I've kind of like blossomed into that cliche in building trust. I think first and foremost, your patients have to trust you before they will believe in what you're doing to them or for them. And the way to do that is really to listen intently, communicate openly, and just let them know that you have their best interest at heart. And that's your top priority. Their wellness and their recovery is my top priority.

[00:04:46] And I have fun with it. We have fun in our clinic and we have fun when we're treating the patients. We have the music on and we talk about like their weekend and we talk about how was the wedding, not necessarily how's your shoulder feeling. We know your shoulder's in pain, but the goals are really associated with their lifestyle.

[00:05:05] So my patients come to me and they say, hey, I want to lift my grandkids again, or I want to dance with my wife again, or I want to go on long walks with my wife again. And that's how I really track the recovery as to what they're doing functionally. It's not necessarily how much range of motion they have in their shoulder or how much strength they have in their knee. It's more about like, yes, now as a result of working with you, Dr. Griffo, I am now able to go on walks with my wife at night again.

[00:05:32] I'm able to pick my grandkids up again. I'm able to swing a golf club again. That's how I really measure progress with my patients.

[00:05:39] In this podcast, we love to talk about personal stories and stories that actually touched you and made you become who you are. And the rehab revolution is not going to be different. So is there a story, a particular story or a particular moment that you recall taught you this and made you be who you are?

[00:06:07] Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'll never forget this story. About 15 years ago, I was working at a hospital in Northeast Philadelphia and I had my own practice there and I was working there about six years.

[00:06:24] So then subsequent to that, I left the hospital and I left my own practice. So two years in my new practice, I get a call and the secretary comes out and says, hey, can you jump on the call with this patient? I said, absolutely. So I get on the call and this woman is on the call and she says, hey, you probably don't remember me, but seven years ago, you treated my mother and you treated my mother with respect.

[00:06:53] And you talked to her and you sat down and even if you were in a hurry or you were busy, you always made it a point to sit down and talk to her and see how she's doing and how she's feeling. She died last week. And she said to me, as her daughter, track you down and thank you for that experience. That was such a heartfelt moment in my career and in my life in general to have a patient.

[00:07:19] Track me down seven years later and to tell me how much of an effect I had on her just in interacting her, just with being kind and affable and available to her really means a lot to patients. And we tend to skip over that. We tend to miss that. We don't know how much of an impression we're making on our patients, but that absolutely summarized my whole career.

[00:07:45] Really, really just I was so, so thankful for her to track me down and to call me. And she was so thankful for how I treated her mother. It just had a profound effect on my life and my career. I was going to say that physicians are often focused on healing the person or whatever the disease is.

[00:08:11] They forget about the soul and the heart and that there is actually a human being behind the pain or the disease. Because I'm guessing by now, you know, that's one of the most important things. How does it make you feel to know that that is something people acknowledge and do not take for granted? Exactly. You know, I have another story.

[00:08:37] So a long time ago when I started my career, I had a good friend of mine. He was with Big Surgeon and I said to him, I said, you know, you send me a lot of work. I send you a lot of work. Why do you send me so many patients? He said, it's real simple and I'll never forget this. And I teach this to all my aides and all the people that work for me. He talked about the three A's of patient care. And the first A is affable.

[00:09:01] They want to know that you're kind and that you're genuine and that you're approachable and that you have their best interest in heart. The second A is available. You're available to them. They can call your cell phone. They can call you and they know that you're going to call them back. And that's really, really important because most of the times you can get lost in a shuffle and patients, you know, I reached out three times and no one got back to me. And then they just they essentially just give up. They give up trying.

[00:09:27] And the last A, which is the least important A to patients, and we think it's the most important, is able. Like, are you the expert? Yes, I am the expert. But that is not the most important thing. The most important thing is that you are kind to them. You're available to them. And then lastly, when you build that trust is then when you have the belief and the support around your expertise and your skill set, which I think was really, really well said.

[00:09:55] And that will never leave me throughout my career. Doctor, you know that many of our listeners are probably unfamiliar with the rehabilitation process. So I know there's plenty, but what is that one thing you wish more people knew about the rehabilitation process? That is a wonderful question.

[00:10:24] What I feel is that I don't want patients or the public to look at physical therapy as a service, as something they get. It's not a service. It's not a commodity. And I'll expand on like what has become, I think, our profession of physical therapy as a doctor of physical therapy. It's not a service.

[00:10:49] It's a profession and it's really unique in my approach in that my patients historically come to me as their physical therapist. And I know it's semantics, but there's a big difference between physical therapy and being a physical therapist. Physical therapy is a service that people think they can get anywhere. They can get it from their primary care doctor. They can get it from their chiropractor or they can get it from a physical therapist.

[00:11:16] My patients come to me knowing that this is a profession. This is my profession. I've studied long and hard to be a physical therapist. And I really, really cherish that example of the differentiator between what we do and what I've seen done in other providers. I've worked for hospital systems. I worked for the big box commodity physical therapy providers. And it's all about volume. It's all about how many patients you could treat per hour.

[00:11:46] And my clinic is really unique in that I only treat two patients per hour and I treat my patients. I don't shuffle my patients off to an aid or have them go over in a corner and do their exercises. I'm there one-on-one with my patients two per hour. When I worked in a hospital system, I was seeing six to eight per hour. And you can't treat patients appropriately treating six to eight patients per hour.

[00:12:14] That's why, you know, patients pay for that. Patients want to come to my facility, the rehab room, because of that. They know they're going to get hands-on health care and they're going to get it from an expert, a movement expert. That's who I am. And that's what I sell to my, to, I want to broadcast to my patients. And I want to know, I want them to know and the public to know that physical therapy is not physical therapy, is not physical therapy. Meaning you go down the street and you see a physical therapy sign.

[00:12:43] Okay, I'm going to go in there for physical therapy. That's not who we are. And that's definitely not what the rehab room is. Well, before doing this podcast, I read a lot about you and what you do. And after talking to you about 15 minutes, it's become pretty clear that you're very passionate about making a bridge between physical and mental health as well.

[00:13:09] So how did you come to realize the need for integrating these two things, physical therapy with mental health care? Yeah, I've been building this model for about 10 years now. And it's all started back when I had my own clinic and I had patients come in.

[00:13:30] And what I found was that they would come in for shoulder surgery or neck surgery or ACL or Parkinson's or whatever it is. And I looked at the diagnosis as, okay, this is the physical diagnosis. I can treat this successfully and I can rehab this patient and discharge this patient in four to six weeks. But what happened was when I would discharge my patients, I would say, okay, you know, Ursula, your shoulder is fantastic.

[00:14:00] You have full range of motion, full strength. You're ready to go and you're discharged. Not knowing that you didn't go back to play golf because you were fearful or you had anxiety or you had depression. Turns out that 40% and I did the study on this, 40% of my patients were anxious or depressed or had PTSD from the surgery or from the car accident or from the fall.

[00:14:25] And they weren't being treated because I would just discharge the patient, wish him the best. And now our clinic has a psychologist down the hall. So my partner at the practice is a psychologist. So if I have a patient comes in and they had shoulder surgery or they were in a car accident and they're anxious or they have trauma or they have PTSD, I refer them right down the hall and they're treated by a psychologist.

[00:14:54] And then to round that all off, we have a full concussion clinic in our office. So we have diagnostics, we have full treatment parameters, and that's fed by myself, Dr. Gariffo, as well as our psychologists. So we all kind of co-treat that head trauma patient. Any concussion is a traumatic brain injury, also known as a TBI. So we see a lot of trauma patients in the practice, TBI patients in the practice, and that is within the concussion clinic.

[00:15:24] And then to round it all off together is hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And I know we're going to touch on that in a little bit, but hyperbaric oxygen therapy is really unique. I'm the only provider in the area providing hyperbaric oxygen therapy. And I've seen amazing outcomes from anything from somebody suffering with depression or bipolar disorder or someone that has a wound that's not healing or post-COVID symptoms or a rapid recovery to an elite athlete.

[00:15:53] We've had collegiate athletes come in there, we've had professional athletes come in there, and they jump in the hyperbaric, and they come out 50 minutes later, and they feel like a million dollars. And they feel like they had six cups of coffee just because of the pressurized oxygen at the cellular level is leading to recovery. So the presence of disease is the absence of oxygen.

[00:16:17] So if you provide oxygen to the body, then you're going to rapidly recover. You're going to recover in three weeks, not eight weeks. Your wound will heal. You won't be as depressed. You won't be as anxious. And it's a lot of anecdotes, a lot of stories of patients coming in there, and they said just change their world, change their outlook. And it's been fantastic for us.

[00:16:43] I'm going to go back a tiny moment because you were talking about mental health. And I think mental health is still sort of a taboo thing for many people. So how do your patients react when they go for physical therapy? And you say, hey, you know what? I think you need to see a psychologist as well. Great question.

[00:17:10] You know, what happens is I know the patients and the patients know me and they trust me. So if I'm making a recommendation, even if it's something as simple as, hey, I think you should see a neurologist or you should see an orthopedic surgeon or you should see a hand surgeon. My referral is respected. So they know that I'm not just going to send them to see the psychologist just because she's in the same building. They know that I have their best interest at heart and they trust that. So if I say, hey, you know what?

[00:17:39] You've been really down the past couple of weekends. I noticed you didn't go on your trip last week, not because of shoulder pain, but because you seem depressed. You seem off a little bit. And that's always in the privacy of my office, you know, in the room. We sit down and we talk. And I have that relationship with my patients. I have it with every single one of my patients and they trust that fact. And so if I refer them to psychology, they definitely need to see somebody. And sometimes they go in for two visits and they feel great. They're like, thank you for that.

[00:18:09] Because like you said, it does have, it's still, believe it or not, which kind of odd, still has a stigma associated with it, which is really unreal to me because I feel like everybody should see a psychologist. I really do. It's just, it's so helpful, so beneficial. It's not, it's not this black mark on your medical history. It's simply someone you could talk to who can give you the expertise and the knowledge that no other specialty can offer.

[00:18:36] For many people, physical therapy is about just being on a bed, lifting the hand or lifting the arm or scratching the leg. And well, you just talked about the hyperbaric oxygen. So I would like to know what are some of the most exciting or innovative techniques that you have incorporated into your practice?

[00:19:04] Another differentiator that's really big in this space is I'm board certified in dry needling. So dry needling is really unique in that it's insertion of a acupuncture needle, which is big. It's called dry because there's no hollowness to the needle. So you're not injecting anything. You're finding that muscle spasm or you're finding that muscle that's not firing appropriately. And you are piercing that muscle.

[00:19:32] And then you're, you're looking for kind of like if you, the, the, the analogy would be is if you put your hand on a balloon and you're feeling that like kind of like raising up onto the skin. And then you put the needle in that muscle belly. That's, that's in spasm and you literally feel the spasm dissipate. And it's been miraculous for multiple, multiple patients.

[00:20:01] Not just the spasm patient or not just a patient that has tendonitis or has a quad strain, but also for patients that don't have the appropriate diagnosis, meaning the muscle of the hip that's in the back of the hip. Isn't firing correctly. So we can wake up that muscle by dry needling that muscle. That's one of many, many differentiators that are specific to my practice.

[00:20:27] We also have, um, units, uh, it's called the vibe plate and I won't bore you with the specifics, but the vibe plate is really unique in that it's, it's a horizontal vibration. So the horizontal vibration, when you're standing on it or when you're walking on it, or when you're training for balance, offsets the balance and it fires the muscles of the hip and the knee and the ankle. If you're weight bearing through your lower extremities, you could also do pushups on it.

[00:20:56] You could do handwork on it. And then that fires all the upper extremity muscles. We have the biodex, uh, balance assessment, again, all unique pieces of equipment that nobody else is offering. So I have a patient that comes in, has a concussion assessment through the eye box, which again is another FDA approved, uh, unique differentiator that my practice officers.

[00:21:20] And we come in and we, we look at the oculomotor nerve in the eye and we can diagnose the concussion and give it a score. So we can treat that patient that comes in with a score of 16. And four weeks later, we do another eye box assessment on them. And now there are 10. So we can objectify that treatment plan, not just be subjective on how are you feeling? How's your balance? How's your headaches? We can look at it and say, you know, you went down six points. That's fantastic. And then we discharge you at eight points.

[00:21:49] So I box, vibe plate, the biodex assessment, the sway assessment things. When you go into, and I'm not knocking them, but I've worked for them before like the big box providers. And I will not name them of physical therapy. When you go in to that setting, it's everything looks the same. So you have the cuff weights and you have the treadmill and you have the age running around and watching somebody exercise. That's not what we do.

[00:22:18] Like I said, we have two patients an hour with me the whole time. So if I have AIDS, the AIDS are going to get me a hot pack so I can put it on your shoulder or going to get me the dry needling so I can treat you with dry needling. Most often patients come in for something that they didn't think they needed hyperbarics or they didn't think they needed dry needling. But they see me treating that patient and they're like, what is that all about? And I educate them on them. Most often, sometimes patients will say, hey, I want to try that. Or can you do that to me? Absolutely.

[00:22:48] Let's go ahead and do that. And oftentimes, 90% success rate with dry needling, which is miraculous in this field. I could go on and on and on with our differentiators, but I don't want to... No, no. But we were talking about the hyperbaric oxygen. You did say that you had lots of stories to tell that were amazing and miraculous stories about patients. I was wondering if you could share any of those with us.

[00:23:20] Yes. We had a patient who was suffering with post-COVID symptoms for four years. Four years. Tried everything. Every medicine there is. Every treatment there is. She came in and she read a lot about hyperbarics. Ten treatments of hyperbarics, symptom-free. Ten treatments over five weeks, two treatments a week. So it took her five weeks to recover from four years worth of symptoms.

[00:23:50] Phenomenal. Phenomenal outcomes in the hyperbarics. Another story. I had a patient come in who had lumbar spine surgery. Diabetic patient. And the wound just was not healing. Got in hyperbaric oxygen therapy. Of course, with the wound exposed. And the wound was healed in four weeks. And the stories just go on and on and on. I know it sounds kind of like, wow, someone healed in five weeks with hyperbarics. Yes.

[00:24:19] And multiple stories, success stories with the hyperbarics. And it's something as simple as, you know, a collegiate wrestler. I have a patient and a friend who's a collegiate wrestler. And he comes in there just to expedite his recovery. So if he has a meet on a Friday, he'll come in on a Saturday. And I also let him go in there on a Sunday. And then he's ready to go come Monday.

[00:24:43] Whereas he used to have to recover for a full week before he can even go back to the gym and work out. And then as a result of his success, he refers all of his students. He's a college coach now for wrestling. So now all of his students want to come in because coach, you know, says, hey, he's recovered from it. So I want to do it. And that's a reason. There's a reason why it's really big in the professional sport arena.

[00:25:12] It's really big in the singers like, you know, Justin Bieber sleeps in one every night. So it's out there, but it's just not. It's not right now. Multiple exposure other than my clinic. I don't know of anybody that's providing hyperbarics in the tri-state area. Well, it sounds miraculous. I'm going to ask you for a huge favor because I know you understand how it works.

[00:25:41] Is there any chance you can explain it for dummies? For people like me, we have no idea what it is. You say I can go sleep there. How does it work exactly? So I guess the best way to talk about it would be to discuss sea level. So here we are just breathing in oxygen as we're talking to each other.

[00:26:07] So with hyperbarics, you're in a chamber and the chamber is pressurized. And you're also on a cannula in your nose, breathing oxygen. So the oxygen is pure and you're breathing the oxygen in, but you're also pressurizing that oxygen to dissipate at the cellular level in the body as if you were 12 feet underwater. So you know the pressure as we go deeper and deeper in water?

[00:26:34] However, that's the pressure of the hyperbaric chamber. So patients that have inner ear problems can't get in it or nose problems can't get in it because of the pressure on their ears and their nose. So that's one of the contraindications of it. It is very specific in the medical history and the intake form as when we evaluate a patient to see if they're appropriate. Not everyone's appropriate for hyperbarics. Hyperbarics.

[00:27:00] So I guess the presence of the oxygen, like I quoted earlier, is the absence of disease. So everything that we have, diabetes, glaucoma, can be helped and treated with hyperbaric oxygen therapy. So it's the pressure of oxygen into the body that's changed at the cellular level, I guess is the short story. Sounds amazing.

[00:27:29] I want to try it. So what is the biggest misconception that people have about physical therapy, aside from the fact that you lay on the bed and somebody lifts your arm and then you're done? Yeah. It's a good reason for everything. Yeah. I kind of want to expand on what I said earlier. It's, I feel that it's something that has become a, I need to go get physical therapy now. And I know we talked about this earlier.

[00:28:00] What does that mean? Well, the public sees physical therapy as, okay, there's one there. There's one there. They're no different from each other. So I'm just going to go there. And then what happens in my practice is oftentimes a patient will come to me based on having treated their daughter or their mother or their son, having that brand awareness.

[00:28:24] So physical therapy has become, unfortunately, a commodity and a commodity is defined as that's the same as that, same as that, same as that. Physical therapy is physical therapy is physical therapy. That is the misconception. However, it is true in the big box approach to physical therapy because I have to treat eight patients an hour, six patients an hour, five patients an hour.

[00:28:49] The only way to do that is to utilize ancillary care or an aid, an unlicensed, unskilled aid running around and watching Ursula do her long quads in the corner. And that is your impression of physical therapy until you come to the rehab. And then when you experience excellence, there's no going back to the commodity that has unfortunately become physical therapy because they come in there.

[00:29:18] And I've had multiple, multiple stories where patients call me and invite me to their wedding or their child's christening because of this relationship that I built. I'm really, really proud of how I build that relationship with my patients. And it's, it's, it's, it's been, it's been so amazing to see patients recover and then refer back. That's the best referral.

[00:29:46] The best referral is word of mouth referrals. You know, that's, that's what I built my career on. That's what I built my practice on. And I guess the long story short is, unfortunately, physical therapy has become a commodity, just not at the rehab room. Dr. Garifo, when you think about the future of rehabilitation and healthcare, I know that you're, I mean, you're very passionate about this.

[00:30:15] So what excites you the most? And, um, let's say we fast forward, I don't know, five years. What would success for the rehab room look like? So the, I guess market saturation, uh, we want to have 10 of these in the tri-state area. So I'm in Pennsylvania and we're looking to grow to Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey.

[00:30:42] Uh, so the goal would have 10 rehab rooms in the next five years. Um, what I see and I hope to see physical therapy become in the next five years is not, um, I guess not relying on insurance because insurance reimbursement for physical therapy goes down about 10% per year.

[00:31:10] Simultaneously, my costs go up 10% a year. So you can't make it. You can't thrive or survive. If all you do is see insurance patients. So the insurance patients come in to the big commodities, the big box stores, knowing that, okay, they take all insurances. We don't take insurance. Our insurance, everything we have is cash-based. So I really feel like there's a few that are around me that are also cash-based because

[00:31:39] you cannot survive getting paid what insurance wants to pay. Because again, insurance companies do not value physical therapy enough to pay the value that physical therapy provides to their patients because they just see it as a service. To my prior point, it's not a service. It's a profession. And we're moving experts. And if patients are willing to pay for that, they will seek that out. They want to be out of pain.

[00:32:08] They want to have the best outcome. And patients are willing to pay for that because they know that, you know, most practices, I think, in the next five years are not going to accept insurance payments. It's almost like the dentists of 30 years ago. You know, 30, 40 years ago, dentists stopped taking insurance. But we all have to get our teeth fixed, right? So they figured it out 30 years ago. And I feel, I really feel and I hope and pray that that is the future of physical therapy. But just not relying on insurance patients.

[00:32:38] If you could be a fly in a room where two people are talking about the rehab room, what would you like for them to be saying? I would like, let's see, them to talk about the passion and the drive and the camaraderie of the team. So from the front desk to the back of the house, everybody is rowing in the same direction.

[00:33:07] Everybody is having fun because my team is built, hand built. And I don't tolerate the nonsense of like checking your phone at the front desk or being miserable because you had a fight with your boyfriend. I just don't tolerate that because the patients won't tolerate that. The patients will vote with their feet. I could do the best job on earth in the back of the house, but the front desk doesn't call

[00:33:34] you back or doesn't say, you know, how you doing today? Or welcome to the rehab room, Ursula. Uh, everybody's, everybody's having fun and the energy is just palpable. It's contagious. It really is. So if I heard two of my patients talking to each other, I would want them to say, Dr. Griffo is the best physical therapist I've ever seen. And he's always, always looking out for us and, you know, seeing what's going on.

[00:34:04] I just, I just, um, shot a video last week of a patient of mine. Uh, he's a chef and I just kind of want to share quickly his story. So this video is a testimonial. And the question I asked him is, what is it that I did for you or do for you that is different from what you experienced elsewhere? And he was really candid and really just, he went there and he said, look, he said, when

[00:34:29] I come to you, I know that you're going to sit down with me and say, okay, how's it going? And I've told you multiple times, like this exercise, it's kind of hurting. And then you adjust it immediately. Whereas in the past I would go in and I'd be sitting in a chair for 20 minutes. Nobody came up to me. Nobody talked to me. I had a $40 copay and it was the worst experience.

[00:34:55] And then that impression is what he was thinking physical therapy was until he met me. And, um, he's got, he's got a great restaurant. He had massive shoulder surgery, couldn't move his arm, couldn't cook anymore. Now he has full range of motion. It's funny in the video, he's showing me his arm, he's moving his arm. He's showing me how he flips his, uh, his steaks, but just a great example of, you know,

[00:35:20] of the care I provide and the care my team provides again, we're all the enthusiasm truly is contagious at the rehab. Dr. Grifo, what can we expect from the next episodes of the rehab revolution? I would love to get into the, you know, the nuts and bolts of all of the differentiators that we talked about and we touched on like the vibe plate and what is dry needling and

[00:35:49] how can that help my patients or help the public hyperbaric oxygen therapy, biodex assessments really dig deep, deeper than today. I know today was just a general introduction, but there's so much to offer at the rehab room. And I just would love to, uh, to kind of spell it out for the audience. So please do me a favor and invite every single person that's listening to this episode to stay

[00:36:15] tuned for, uh, the next rehab revolution episode. Thank you so much, Ursula.